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Hair loss product creator Cary Heather of HeatherWorks, joins HairlossSucks to discuss with everyone his various regrowth products.  Included in the suite is a Shampoo, and a regrowth solution.  A comprehensive list of questions is presented below, which you can click and be taken immediately to the answer.  Want to see what everyone said after the question/answer session?  Click Here to go directly to the Open chat afterwards.  Happy Reading!


HeatherWCharles Heather consulted with Nisim years ago when they were formulating their products. However, there is no corporate link between HeatherWorks and Nisim.
HairlossSucksAnonymous Question: What do you think of other treatments? Much research must have been done so I am curious of your opinion on them, for instance, what advantages do you think your approach has over existing methods?
HeatherWThe products we have now at HW are different from the products of Nisim. Some of the philosophy behind the mechanisms are similiar.Semodex + HW? Same thing, there is no reason we know of to believe the two together are a problem.
John12 why is the science behind heatherworks so completely opposite to what has been posted at alt.baldspot, as comfirmed by Dr.Proctor?
HeatherW1st question: There are 2 proven treatments for MPB: Rogaine (Minoxidil) and Propecia (Finasteride). In comparison to Rogaine, our product has much less problems with dermatologic side effects. There is also no initial shedding with our products, as occurs with Rogaine, after 10 to 12 weeks of therapy. In comparison to Propecia, our product is free of hormonal complications such as breast swelling, tenderness and sexual dysfunction.
Guest What is your opinion of Crinigen?
HairlossSucksQuestion: Could you elaborate on your disagreement with Dr Poctor over uric acid?
HeatherWTwo outstanding questions on the table...
HeatherW1: proctor and uric acid. We're going to try to give you a summary response now to the Proctor issues...However, we will be posting comprehensive responses to all of the recent posts on BaldSpot and HairSite in the next 24 hours...Now, back to tonight's little summary... little aside Crinagen? Honestly, I can't say we know too much about it either way, or have any real opinion on it. Dr. Proctor and I agree that uric acid has wound-healing properties. Dr. Proctor has stated that uric acid is an anti-oxidant. In some situations, though, uric acid acts as a pro-oxidant. This is well established scientific fact, and we will support this view with studies we will post in the next 24 hours... we're not going anywhere for hours, we'll answer everything... Grin.. We're gonna do our best to run through each one one at a time...Maybe, if you like we can say "next question when we're sorted out on the last posed question. Is that cool, everyone?
HeatherWOk, back to u.a. for a minute...Much of our debate with Dr. Proctor has centered around issues involving uric acid that really has no bearing on hair loss itself.
Sewnwhat is uric acid?
HeatherWFor example, we have had long discussions about metabolic syndrome X, gout, Lesch Nyhan syndrome and wound-healing in response to placing urine on a wound...
Sewnurine?
HeatherWObviously, many of these issues are outside of what is germain to hair loss.
Sewnyour product is made of urine?
HeatherWAh, sewn, no, our product is not made of urine...Uric acid is an end product of purine metabolism in the body. Now, back to John12's question about Peter Proctor and our science...Obviously, Dr. Proctor comes to the table with a wealth of clinical expertise. Forgive mee, but he also comes to the table with an agenda outside the scope of altruistic education. For example, he has repeatedly stated that uric acid is an anti-oxidant. However, his own research which he so frequently quotes, indicates that uric acid is sometimes a pro-oxidant.
HairlossSucksQuestion: How have HeatherWorks results compared to the success of Minoxidil to the best of your knowledge?
HeatherWThere are 2 ways to approach this question...1. Comparison of their efficacy rates in their studies vs. our efficacy rates in our studies. 2. A direct head-to-head comparison of HeatherWorks vs. Minoxidil vs. Propecia. The advantage of #2 is that it is statistically more valid...(but much more expensive). So...Right now, our online study stats are at about 70% improvement in rate of hair loss. Minoxidil has an efficacy of 25% when using hair weight as their study end-point.
HairlossSucksQuestion: How many Doctors are working on HeatherWorks?
HeatherWWe currently have 2 MDs and 1 PhD. I've been asked by private email to name them now: Dr. Tim O'Callahan and Dr, Paul Weihmeyer. We are currently planning a large placebo-controlled clinical study which will enlist the involvement of 25 additional doctors acting as private unbiased practitioners. Private email question- are our team members consultants or employees? Our medical staff are all currently consultants. I _really_ want to thank everyone for taking the time to come out tonight... I know we all have lots of other things we could be doing... Thank you!!
HairlossSucksQuestion: Are any of your success stories online and can we get in touch with those people to discuss their success?
HeatherWWhat's on-line?... Really, everything we have from Phase I and Phase II...Now, is there a way to get in touch with people?Certainly, for all of our Phase II participants, we have taken pains to assure complete anonymity. So, I guess not for them...Now, of course, anythign any of them woudl like to note in a testimonial is posted on-line on our study...And of course, many of them do post at hairsite.com, alt.baldspot, and regrowth.com if the discussion group ever gets back on-line...
HairlossSucksQuestion: If uric acid and/or urea is water soluable, does that not mean that almost any shampoo will clease it from the scalp?
HeatherWOh, and in our on-line study, if anyone wants to put their email addres in their testimonial, they are free to do so, though none have thought of doing that yet..Now, for these Phase I participants, I am sure that any of them woudl be more than happy to speak freely about their success... Next question: ua and arue water soluble...excuse spelling ..grin..Uric acid and urea are both water soluble..So, uric acid on the surface of the scalp coudl be cleansed by any shampoo.However...It is uric acid / urea / toxic metabolites in the hair follicle itself that are active in the pathophysiology of follicle miniaturization and ultimate hair loss. Regular shampooing does not remove these substances.
HairlossSucksQuestion: Can you precisely define "70% improvement in rate of hair loss"?
HeatherW70% improvement... really, these are the specific stats that are online...First, let's make sure we're distinguishing between hair loss improvement and hair regrowth...Let me speeak to hair loss improvement first... If you go to our current online study results, and run the numbers on our "Rate of Hair Loss" stats, you will get a number between 67% and 72%...Meaning , of our participants, around 70% of them report an improvement in their rate of hair loss. Oh, that other 30%? Most simply report no change. Very few actually report a worsening of hair loss, and the ones that do, we are currently trying to correlate this to other treatments they are on and may be stopping concurrently and possible shedding associated with that.
HairlossSucksQuestion: Do you have an opinion on things like topical azelaic, b6, zinc saw, etc etc??
HeatherWtopical azelaic, b6, zinc, saw palmetto, etc. etc.?...All of these have yet to be proven scientifically, although we watch all of them with interest.
HairlossSucksQuestion: How much of the "70%" is placebo response?
HeatherWHow much of 70% is placebo?... Well, it is impossibl to say really, without doing a formal placebo-controlled study..However...In the Minoxidil studies, there was no difference between patients receiving placebo (Minoxidil vehicle) vs. no treatment. Now for HW...Given that our study is on-line, our participants do not receive very much hands-on direction...This may be the basis for a large placebo response in some studies...
HairlossSucksQuestion: What's a pro-oxidant?
HeatherWReferring to NEJM, Septmber 23, 1999, page 967, placebo and no treatment hair weight was identical. (pro-oxidant) ... A pro-oxidant is a substance which causes the production of free radicals...It is the opposite of an anti-oxidant.
HairlossSucksQuestion: Are HeatherWorks "Doctors" actual Doctors for HeatherWorks or are they consultants or advisors for the research being done?
HeatherWHW doctors?They are consultants to product development and research. (private email) layman's description of a couple terms... Free Radicals - substances in the body which are in an oxidative state and which can be significant in some disease states.
HairlossSucksFollow up Question: If your docs all consultants.. then who is doing the actual research, and what qualifications do they have?
HeatherWwhy don't your drs. post their recommendations on your www site? The design of our WWW site including all of the scientific information was prepared with their input...Why don't they put their names on it? Well, I guess we have released their names tonight, I supose that in itself is tantamount to their putting their respective reputations on the line... As you know, there are 2 components to this type of research...1. Basic science research: Dr. Weihmeyer (product development, basic science questions) 2. Clincial efficacy research: Dr. O'Callahan.They have been responsible for setting up the on-line study and are currently engaged in planning our upcoming clinical study.
HairlossSucksQuestion: Still wondering what is the difference between your products and Nism products?
HeatherWThe components of our product effectively penetrate the hair follicle and remove the previously mentioned toxic metabolites.Nisim's philosophy may be the same, but we feel that differences in our product have resulted in a better efficacy.
HairlossSucksQuestion: How long will the placebo-controlled clinical study take?
HeatherWIt is presently in a planning stage...We expect that the study duration will be 12-18 months.
HairlossSucksQuestion: Could you comment on what Dr. P stated that facial creams have up to 30% urea on their formulations yet they do not cause local hairloss when applied? And yet you state that urea is one of the causes of hairloss...
HeatherWOK...1. The site of action of urea is in the hair follicle, not topically. 2. Hair retardants contain uric acid salts which can penetrate the hair follicle and retard hair growth...Now...One of my (Cary Heather) other companies is GreenCanyon.com...We sell a hair retardant...and one of the active ingredients is the uric acid salt, trihydroxy purine.
HairlossSucksQuestion: What made you start with the theory that this product would work? ie, how did you happen upon your discovery?
HeatherWCharles Heather has been in hair loss all of his life..About 18 years ago, one of his Canada Research Council study grants resulted in some discoveries vis-a-vis toxic metabolites and hair loss...Out of these discoveries developed our products for hair retardants and hair growth.
HairlossSucksQuestion: Is there anyway of testing your idea that regular shampoos vs your shampoo will not remove uric acid from the hair follicle (without surgery, of course)?
HeatherWCharles Heather is my uncle of course, but also a partner in HeatherWorks. He is in charge of research, and very much involved in product development. He also takes care of our Phase I participants, using their feedback to further our research. Testing regular vs. HW...I am not aware of a means of testing this without at least doing scalp biopsies.
HairlossSucksQuestion: Ok so 70 percent noted a slowing of hairloss but has it stopped hairloss in any of your participants?
HeatherWYes...(checking our currrent on-line stats...) Before using HeatherWorks, 75% of people said they had moderate hair loss, and only 4% said they had normal hair loss.after only 2 weeks of using HeatherWorks..42% reported that their rate of hair loss was normalized, and only 43% said they had moderate hair loss..And of course, some of the 43% moderate previously had significant hair loss.
HairlossSucksQuestion: In regards to your comments before about self reported studies, self-reported studies like yours are notoriously unreliable! There HAVE been minox studies showing growth from placebo. This is well-known.
HeatherWRight now, I have in front of me Dr. Vera Price's article from the New England Journal of Medicine from September 1999...and she notes that when objective end-points are used, there is no difference between the placebo and no treatment groups. However...when subjective (ie. patient-reported) end-points are used, placebo has a small but definite effect. And...as noted previously, the only true way to compare Minoxidil with HeatherWorks is to do a direct head-to-head study. I should note......that even in areas of medicine which receive much financial interest, for example, blood pressure, these sorts of direct comparison studies are only now being conducted... For example,...Dr. O'Callahan is involved in the ALLHAT study comparing different treatments for blood pressure... ... this study will last for 7 years and cost the NIH several million dollars.
HairlossSucksFollow up Comment: Dr. Price was evidently referring to a specific study which showed little or no placebo response; however, others have definitely showed this!
HeatherWI agree... There are studies looking at subjective end-points in which patients report an effect from placebo......obviously, this asks an important question: Why does placebo work? ...Are people fooling themselves?... Or, are patients in clinical studies who receive more direct invovement with their physican more apt to improve regardless of whether they get the active drug or placebo...Our study is on-line and involves no physician contact... Perhaps this will induce a lower placebo response rate. Really, who knows.
HairlossSucksFollow up: It's the well known vehicle effect, in the case of the minox studies.Apparently PPG is a hair-growth stimulant. Dr. P has repeatedly pointed out that about HALF the effect of minox is from the vehicle.
HeatherWHonestly, that is questionable... The study that would prove it would compare Minoxidil vehicle with another (inert) placebo. This study has not been performed to date.
HairlossSucksQuestion: I've been using HeatherWorks in conjunction with 5% minoxidil for about 6 weeks now, with no apparent regrowth in the hairline region that I'm hoping for. Is it possible that they are negating each other ? BTW, my hair in general feels thicker, and as I massage my scalp, I THINK I feel britstly little hairs intermingled in there....
HeatherWTo answer this question scientifically, I would have to point to studies comparing plain HeatherWorks to plain Minoxidil to the combination of the two...This hasn't been done yet, although we are currently collecting concurrent drug data in our on-line study...There has been no suggestion that Minoxidil counteracts the effect of HeatherWorks.
HairlossSucksQuestion: How do you know that heatherworks products inhibit DHT?
HeatherWOK...1. The principal mode of action of HW is to remove uric acid and other toxic metabolites from the follicle which are the end product of DHT action...2. A secondary mode of action has been observed in internal histological studies which show that a natural organic component in HW causes decreased levels of DHT.
HairlossSucksFollow up Question: In Re: to HeatherWorks inhibiting DHT, you comments on what internal histological studies, could you give details on what these studies were?
HeatherWBy internal, I mean unpublished, non-peer-reviewed...... we use these studies to formulate the product. They were histological studies pre- and post-treatment. We would publish mores extensive basic science research like this in the future after clinical efficacy has been definitively established.
HairlossSucksQuestion: As a followup to the comments you made earlier in regards to topical azelaic, b6, zinc, saw palmetto, etc and the fact that you felt that though they have not been proven, we all wait with interest to see the results of their use. Do you personally have an opinion that you feel comfortable commenting on?
HeatherWOK...No, really, when it comes to other people's products that I don't have direct experience with, I really hate to downplay them...knowing full well that the reason that many products are unproven is not because they do not work...but rather, because the effort and financial committment has not been made to prove or disprove their efficacy.
HairlossSucksQuestion: Is Saw Palmetto one of the "organic compounds" that HeatherWorks uses?
HeatherWNo.
HairlossSucksQuestion: What is the difference between your Shampoo and the special tonic that one needs to stimulate regrowth?
HeatherWThe shampoo decreases ongoing hair loss; the regrowth solution promotes new growth.
HairlossSucksQuestion: Again in Re to the histological studies, I want to know what the studies were about, how were they conducted, how did they prove that inhibition occured, etc
HeatherWFYI - an immuno-peroxidase assay was used; Beyond that, I don't have further details at my fingertips.
HairlossSucksQuestion: How much is your product going to cost me monthly for both shampoo and otherwise?
HeatherW8 oz of shampoo + 2 oz of our regrowth solution, which is what you get as part of our Free Trial), has been lasting our on-line study participant between 4-8 weeks. The cost of this package is $50 US. So, the monthly cost is between $25 - $50 US.


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